Good, Thoughtful Hosts #404: Designing for Healthy Aging

Episodes transcribed by AI and proofed for accuracy and spelling by our team.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Healthy aging, preventive care, quality of life, social isolation, family caregivers, wellness facility, patient comfort, community building, geriatrician, functional medicine, physical therapy, healthy meals, medication management, proactive health, design flexibility.

Sarah Steimer 00:07
America is aging, but not always aging well. I’m Sarah Steimer, and on this episode of Good, Thoughtful Hosts, we’re discussing how one health care system is looking to close a major gap in the care continuum by focusing on healthy aging. Something happens around middle age, where Americans tend to stop seeking care unless there are problems. But preventive care, the work that goes into making sure you live a more healthful life, not just a longer life, requires regular check-ins. In a 2024 Harris Poll survey, 94% of Americans 65 years and older said it was more important to them to maintain quality of life than it is to live as long as possible. The John A. Hartford Foundation and Age Wave, the two organizations that released the survey, offered recommendations to improve health care for older adults, which included focusing on wellness and quality of life, not just treating diseases, addressing social isolation, and assisting family caregivers. So where does design come into all this? That’s how we’re really talking about a future-focused approach today. What the Benefis Health System in Montana realized was that this patient population needed its own facility, one where patients could access care that’s specific to their health maintenance, where it’s so comfortable that their anxieties would be reduced, and where it doesn’t just feel like a place they have to come, but a place where they want to come.

Producer 01:58
Today’s special guests:

Kaci Husted 02:01
I’m Kaci Husted. I’m the System Senior Vice President at Benefis Health System, and so I’m involved in a lot of our facilities planning and renovation and new build projects.

Karl DeCock 02:10
And I’m Karl DeCock. I’m an architect project manager, principal, and director of healthcare for Cushing Terrell.

Sarah Steimer 02:19
Awesome. Well, thank you both so much for joining me today. This is a really exciting conversation, I think, because you know you want to talk about being at the forefront of something. This is a much needed piece of the puzzle, piece of that continuum of care. So to begin with, Kaci, before we dive into any of the design aspects. I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about what the goals for this healthy aging center are, maybe by starting with where this idea even came from.

Kaci Husted 02:51
So the idea is really pretty simple when you think about it, but it’s not something a lot of health systems are doing. A lot of people, as they kind of get into middle age really stop going to the doctor, especially if you’re pretty healthy, you just don’t make it a point to regularly go to the doctor. And we find that as people age, they continue down that trajectory, and they start to have health issues, and they don’t necessarily catch things in time or know how to maintain their health status as they get older, so that they can continue to live their best life and do all the things they want to be doing. Instead, I think it’s natural to just kind of accept that as you get older, you’re less healthy and not able to do certain things anymore, which may not always need to be the case. And so we really set out to change that way of thinking and change that model so that our patients could, instead, really embrace aging and longevity and proactively tackle kind of the things that come with aging, so that they can continue to live their best life possible and do all the things they love doing, and stay active and maintain their, all their hobbies they love, and all those things. So the idea really was to just kind of upend the normal care model, change it so that patients aren’t coming to us when they’re at their worst or at their their sickest or have developed acute conditions, instead to come to us when they’re still healthy, and we can help them stay that way.

Sarah Steimer 04:14
So can you tell me a little more about specifically, the type of care someone could expect in a healthy aging center?

Kaci Husted 04:22
So there will be a variety of types of care in the building. We will have a geriatrician and a functional medicine specialist on site, as well as potentially even some other specialists from elsewhere on our main campus who come to this building intermittently to make care as conveniently accessible as possible. There will also be physical therapy services located in the building. That’s a huge one for especially active outdoor Montanans who want to keep skiing, hiking, doing all those things as they age. Our physical therapy program in this building will be geared exactly to that demographic, so that they can really learn the tricks and tips to adjust, different, you know, training methods so that they can stay as active as possible as they age. In addition to those kind of more traditional clinical services, we’ll offer things like a healthy meal pickup service. So it’ll be sort of like a take and bake type meal service that’s very healthy and portioned to one or two people. Nutrition definitely impacts your health status as you age, and we see that that’s one of the biggest factors to our aging demographic, and whether or not they maintain a particular health status is how healthy they eat. It’s really easy to eat kind of junk food or get microwave meals at the grocery store that might not be super healthy, because when you’re only cooking for one or two people, it’s a lot of work to get all the ingredients and do all the cooking from scratch, and so we’re looking to kind of bridge that gap for folks. We’ll also have things like medication management services in the building. We see oftentimes that people, as they age, if they do go to the doctor with a particular concern, it’s easy to just write them another prescription, and next thing you know, you’re on multiple medications that may be interacting with one another and may not be what we want. There will also be just kind of some more proactive type testing you’re able to access through this center. So depending on what you know your particular situation is and concerns might be, if you want, you know particular genetic testing to screen for a disease that runs in your family. If you want cognitive screening because you’re starting to be concerned about memory loss, and want to know proactively if you should maybe be flagging issues, we’ll offer those types of things in the building as well. So really a conglomeration of services intended to meet this demographic where they’re at and allow them to take proactive control of their health depending on their particular circumstance.

Karl DeCock 06:46
I think that’s the unique part about this facility, is it’s a being proactive and then providing the services to allow that proactivity to happen. So if you have a concern, you’re able to voice it and then find ways to try to get ahead of it.

Sarah Steimer 07:01
This is so full service too, which is so interesting. You know, it’s not just the healthy aging clinic or medical center. It’s really a healthy aging just center in general. You know you’re talking about, you know, the medication management, you’re talking about healthy meals. Because, yes, I think there is something, you know, it’s almost like the retirement diet. It’s like, All right, well, I earned this donut, right? So it’s really interesting to me to hear how well rounded it sounds like the services will be. Can you tell me a little bit more, when we talked previously, there was also this idea of it being sort of community building as well. Can you, can you walk me through that a little bit?

Kaci Husted 07:43
We talked a lot in the design process about making the waiting area of the building not just your typical waiting room, but really looking at it more as a living room. And so it very much has that like comfortable lobby type feel that you would expect in more of a hospitality setting than than it does healthcare waiting room feels. And I think that, combined with even like an outdoor patio off the back and a double-sided fireplace in the space, really gives the space the type of, the type of setup that would be conducive to community groups meeting their folks, maybe coming early to their appointment, or staying late to meet up with a friend, that type of thing. And I think there’s just some really great opportunity for sort of support groups or community groups that have interests aligned with the Healthy Aging Center to really leverage that space in a unique way.

Karl DeCock 08:39
And I think that the key on all of that is, it was an intentional decision. It wasn’t a, we’ll create the lobby so we can quickly move people into the system, or to get them plugged in. Okay, they just got to go over here for the, you know, clinical services they’re looking for, over here for the PT. It was to do exactly like you said, Kaci, is, is to allow them to have a space where, which is, which is, which is strange to say, if you think about it, especially from a healthcare side of things, usually it’s a, I want to show up right on time, get what I have to get done, and then get out of the, get out of the way. Where, with this, it’s a, we’re trying to create that space where it’s almost a, “I’ll see you there.” Like it’s it’s their space, and they feel comfortable there because it has a different feel to it, especially in that, you know, that that lobby, that living room space that we created.

Sarah Steimer 09:24
It sounds like this really kind of speaks to, you know, there’s so much conversation lately about this concern, especially among aging Americans, of loneliness and creating this as a bit of a community center sounds like, once again, another piece of that full care spectrum that you would be able to offer. So we’re starting to talk about the design a little bit more now. I understand that this center is also meant to be a bit of a showpiece as well. So could you maybe talk about why that was important for you guys? And of course, Karl also, if you could talk a little bit about how you make this a bit of a show piece.

Kaci Husted 10:06
I mean, not only is this a unique and innovative center, it’s also located at a main entry point to our main campus, and so it’s going to be very prominent and visible as you drive up to Benefis Health System, or drive past our organization, and that really shows how much of a priority we’re making this type of initiative. But at the same time, we want that, that kind of first initial impression of our entire organization and campus, to be something special. And I think we’ve really accomplished that with the design of this building so very exciting that this is going to be a really beautiful building that shows off not just our commitment to healthy aging, but also our health system as a whole.

Karl DeCock 10:50
Yeah, and I think, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there, Kaci, and the fact of, because of how prominent this is off 10th Avenue, and it is in a location where it’s like creating that entryway to come into campus, the design itself is kind of that introduction to the Benefis Health System. And so again, the design want, you know, wanted to make sure that it, it set the stage, I guess, for what to expect. And, you know, in a lot of the early design concepts and kind of working through what this needed to look like, there were, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of, there was a lot of discussion on, you know, how far do we take the design on this? How much does it need to relate to campus versus kind of stand out on its own? And it’s finding that blend between the two to say, this is a unique environment. It has to have a unique feel to it. But it also has to have that comfort that people don’t feel that they’re they’re not in the Benefis Health, you know, like part of the Benefis Health System, but again, that it is set apart slightly, that it’s a space that they called theirs, has that home feel to it, and that they’re comfortable going to. So I think as far as kind of creating and making sure that we had all of the different elements that made us stand out, but feel a part of the overall system, it was trying to find, strike that balance between those two, and also just trying to find that familiarity with the patient population that you’re serving. And in discussions with Corey Stremcha on the design of this, it was— but it’s a lot of agricultural families. A lot of the, when buildings go up out on a ranch or a farm, it’s kind of a, you you start to kind of piece and part different bits and pieces together for what you need. And so it’s, it’s creating familiar forms of, you know, kind of having that gabled roof, but offsetting it slightly so that you have that sense of, kind of just that collection of shapes that still form a very familiar, a familiar form that everybody’s kind of used to and are comfortable with with.

Sarah Steimer 12:44
Let’s talk a little bit more too about this facility’s location on the greater campus. I know that where it is, where it is settled is, is also a big part of the goals of this as well where, yes, it’s part of the campus, but you don’t necessarily feel like you’re going to the hospital. You know, can you talk to me a little bit about the location, Kaci?

Kaci Husted 13:09
Yeah, it’s a little bit of the best of both worlds. It’s close enough to the rest of our main campus infrastructure that we can leverage some of our other infrastructure, like, for example, having specialists from a building on the main campus come over for a day a month to this building, or whatever it is to do a specialty clinic. That’s more achievable because of how close it is to our main campus, but it is definitely much more approachable and has its own different identity than the rest of the campus, because it is set apart. It’s right on 10th Avenue. It has its own site. It has its own parking and accessibility and all those things. So it’s, it’s a little bit of the best of both worlds. It’s close enough to access the infrastructure, but it’s, it’s just far enough away that it can have its own identity and also be its own thing.

Karl DeCock 13:58
So also, I think another unique aspect of where this building is located, it’s located in proximity to the Women’s and Children’s Center. So again, you get that strata of the different patient populations. But you talk about, kind of that continuum of care is you got, you know, kind of that early stages of life and then the latter stages of life all occurring, kind of as you enter into campus.

Sarah Steimer 14:17
So I also wanted to talk about, so okay, we see the place that this building is within the greater campus, but we are talking about many, many services within this one building as well. In order to not get lost when you go in for whatever it is you may need, Karl, can you tell me a little bit about how you were able to design this space to, A., offer so many different and unique things, but B., make it easy for people to find their way around.

Karl DeCock 14:49
Yeah, I think, I think, to start it all off, it really comes down to that living room space, and we have, we have a couple entrances, one that’s facing 10th Avenue, and then the other one on the other side of the building, again, so that you have a really clear and understood entry sequence, so that, you know, where you can kind of come in and kind of get plugged into where you’re going. The other thing that we we set up is we set it up pretty straightforward in the fact of more of your clinical services, obviously, we have some reception, but your clinical services are kind of set up on one side, and then more of your PT and more, you know, active type spaces are set up on the other side. And then obviously, if there’s, you know, something that’s happening with the classroom, like you’re coming in to listen to a presentation on whatever it might be, it’s visible and it’s, it’s easily readable from, you know, that living room space of where you need to go. The design was intended to say, when I come in here, it feels comfortable and it feels like something I’m familiar with, and as I step into these different spaces, it just, it just makes sense.

Sarah Steimer 15:50
And now, Karl, you said toward the beginning of our conversation here that you know the goal is really about enabling people to be proactive about their health. I’m curious to know how you thought about the design, how your team thought about the design in a way that would encourage people to use this building, to use everything that— and regular use too. Not just like, okay, when you have to come come, but trekking in for those meals, whatever it may be. You know, how did you use design elements to encourage this?

Karl DeCock 16:26
It really comes down to just that familiarity and that comfort level that you’re trying to set right from the minute that they walk on site, and then, for sure, once they walk into that that more common space, that living room area, if you have it set up, and you’ve made it really simple for, say, the food service component of, you place your orders, you get your stuff set up. And if somebody wants to come in and just grab their stuff and then take it and leave, we’ve made it really accessible and really easy for them to do that. So it’s not, you know, a bigger process. It’s not a, I have to jump into the bigger system in order to go find where I need to go to collect the food that I, you know, the order that I set up. On the flip side, again, we’ve tried to create that space where you don’t have to do that. Either you can set it up to say, you know, this is such a comfortable space that I’m going to come over here. My order is not going to be ready for another hour, but I’m going to meet up with a friend and grab a coffee, or I’m going to meet up with a friend, because it’s just, it’s just a comfortable space to hang out with with, for lack of better terms. Maybe my people, like these are people in a similar stage of life with me that I share some commonality with. And then we can, we can commune in a space where, typically it’s more of a you get in and you get out.

Sarah Steimer 17:55
Kaci, I’m curious to know, if you know, as this site was being designed, was there any design element that you kind of were surprised to see? And went, Oh, wow, this is, this is going to hit exactly what we were hoping to do. This is going, whether it’s encouraging, you know, independence and care, whether it’s encouraging community, whether it’s encouraging collaboration between doctors or between doctors and patients, you know, were there any particular elements where you kind of sat up and went, Yes, this is doing what we want it to do.

Kaci Husted 18:27
Just the finishes in general. I think we’ve found ways to use such bold materials and colors and things that it becomes this really vibrant space, and that’s the exact vibe we’re going for. We’re not going for clinic. We’re not going for, you know, bland, appealing to, you know, just this really generic population. Like, we’re going for bold, vibrant, and really a place that you would be kind of looking for an excuse to come into this building. I mean, it’s, it’s going to be that beautiful and that inviting. So I think just in general, the ways that we were able to incorporate a lot of color and texture and materiality to the space was just pretty impressive, because it still is a functioning clinic, and that’s not an easy thing to do.

Karl DeCock 19:14
I think that’s a really key point too, Kaci, and the fact of there has to be enough familiarity in particular on the clinical side, that they feel that everything still meets, for lack of better terms, like the appropriate expectation they would have for a clinical space, while still having enough of that feeling of comfort to where it’s like, it’s not that stale, bland, this is what, you know, this is where, where you feel like you’re just plugged in and you’re a number.

Sarah Steimer 19:37
You know we’re we are talking here too, Kaci, you brought up the finishes and the choice in colors, things like that. We’re also talking about a beautiful space. And I don’t know if Kaci, you have any, well, Kaci or Karl, if either of you have any insight on how a beautiful space is really, really helpful for folks to feel more comfortable and to ease that common intimidation of going to the doctors. Do you guys have any thoughts about that?

Kaci Husted 20:10
I think there’s definitely something to that you know that like if you’re in a warm, welcoming, inviting space, you aren’t spending your time waiting to see the doctor with your anxiety building the same way that you would in a traditional waiting room. So I think there’s definitely something to that element of having a beautiful space to wait in. It makes the wait that much better, and ultimately, probably increases the likelihood of you coming back or having a good outcome or a good experience. So definitely, I think it all feeds into the patient experience.

Karl DeCock 20:45
So something that we haven’t mentioned yet, which I think is really, really important to note, is this is not a remotely common facility that you guys are creating. You know, this is really ahead of its time and meeting a really critical need that is out there. I was hoping you could both tell me what you think some of the big design takeaways are so that if another hospital system — because the need is there. So, you know, hopefully we can pass along some lessons.

Sarah Steimer
What are some big takeaways that you guys would really want to point out for other hospital systems, other designers? Karl, I’ll start with you.

Karl DeCock
There’s a lot of studies that that really dig into ideas of creating, to Kaci’s point, trying to create a space that actually takes that anxiety level and actually tones it down. And so there’s things that can be done with, you know, different material selections. Color is a really big one of, you know, making sure that you’re finding more of those cool and calm kind of colors. And then it’s honestly trying to create a space that is organized. You know, if your finishes and the selections that you’ve made are very active, or they feel like they’re they’re too busy, again, it’s it’s almost subconsciously you start, your anxiety level starts to kind of rise, because you just don’t know what the outcome would be, where the environment that you design, and in particular, those spaces that you’re waiting prior to seeing the doctor can really set the stage for the experience that you’re going to have, no matter what ,you know, what procedure or what appointment you’re actually going into. It’s really that kind of that lead up to it, to say, if you’re calm going in, generally speaking, your experience will be better.

Karl DeCock 21:06

I think a lot of it is really just designing around a particular patient population. A lot of healthcare facilities have to design around such a wide spectrum, where it’s, you know, one day you might have children in, you know, they’re, they’re single digits in there, and then you have to design all the way up for folks that are, you know, in the latter parts of their life as well. Where this was really focused, it’s a really focused design that kind of feeds the need of a particular patient population, because it it is a unique patient population that needs to have some additional attention brought to it. So really making sure that, as you know, a future, if somebody were to come up and look to say, well, what are, what are the pieces, or what are the things that we need to think about if we wanted to take this idea and plug it into another healthcare system? It’s really focusing on the needs of that particular patient population to all the things that Kaci was speaking about before. Is, it’s just a different part of your life where, you know, all of a sudden the kids are out of the house. All of a sudden you’ve gone from a household of, you know, four or five, six folks, and you’re making dinner for two now, or you’re changing up your exercise routine. Because it used to be, I would, I would do X, Y, and Z before, but now that it’s just the two of us, things have kind of changed. And it’s putting, instead of waiting for things to happen, it’s, it’s, it’s putting that proactiveness and just creating a space that invites people to say, now’s not the time to just kind of put a pause on your health care and wait for things to deteriorate to the point that you have to get plugged into the system. It’s giving them a really, really good reason and an excuse to say, I’m going to stay engaged here. I’m going to use this as another community outlet, and it’s creating that space that’s specifically for that patient population.

Sarah Steimer 24:18
Yeah, Kaci, I know that you visited another facility that wasn’t quite what this is, but was almost heading toward it. So what would you maybe, if you were may, you know, had the opportunity to meet with another healthcare system, what would you recommend that they consider if they wanted to put something like this into place?

Kaci Husted 24:39
One thing I would say is flexibility is key. I mean, design the space in a way that it can be flexible over time. That was something we were pretty cognizant of in the clinic space. Especially, we’ve got kind of a healthy number of office-type and consult-type spaces that could be used for a variety of different things. We’ve got kind of standard exams, exam rooms, but also built in a little more space than we know we’re going to need on day one, from the standpoint that we don’t necessarily know what this could morph into, there’s a lot of research being done in the longevity space in particular, and a lot of new types of testing and AI-driven kind of imaging type opportunities and things that I think will really morph over time, what this demographic and population is demanding, or what might be best for them. And so I think being flexible is a key — I mean, design your space in a way that it’s going to meet the needs you you may not even know about today. And I know that’s hard to do, but as much as you can be flexible. I would say the other key piece is, aging doesn’t start at 70 and older. Kind of, I think when we first started talking about this, a lot of people go to the thought of traditional geriatric medicine where you’re dealing with frail elderly people. And that was a huge kind of component of our initial planning meetings was like, what do we want this to be? And everyone’s minds drift to that, like, frail elderly, and you get to a point where, like, we had this kind of aha moment or realization on our end where it’s like, actually, we’re pretty good at servicing the frail elderly. Like that’s what our traditional healthcare systems are set up for. I mean, we’ve got nursing homes, we’ve got rehab, we’ve got, if you’re the frail elderly, we’re already the place for you. That’s not what this is. This is for a more proactive demographic. And so that’s not necessarily the 70-plus. Even though it’s about aging, that could be someone as young as, I mean, our functional medicine provider, who will be in this building, she sees patients in their 30s. I mean, you, you, you may start having significant health changes at an earlier age that are conducive to being seen in this type of center, especially if you’re trying to be proactive with your health. So I think rethinking who your demographic is and what aging means and what the goal really is, was a key thing for us, and I think is something to be really intentional about if you were pursuing an initiative like this.

Karl DeCock 27:14
I think the flexibility component is a big one, even even just in the discussions you were having of when you bring in, you know, specialty doctors or specialty you know, individuals out of the the main campus to come over here. The intent is, we know about this right now, we’re trying to design to make sure that when they come over, they have some some space to work. But at the end of the day, the intent is, but when something changes, or when we need to get bring in a specialist on something we haven’t even thought of yet, let’s make sure that we have the spaces that can be conducive, or at least flexible enough to be able to pull them in without saying now we have to change everything.

Sarah Steimer 27:52
I would love to know, because, of course, this hasn’t been built yet. I would love to know what sort of feedback you both have received so far. Whether you know, Kaci, if you’ve heard from patients who are aware of this plan, or maybe some doctors, and of course, you know Karl, if any feedback you’ve heard from colleagues, or even if you’ve chatted with other folks about this, I’m just curious to know what other people think, because it is such a new idea.

Kaci Husted 28:18
I’d say for me, the two kind of key things have been, number one, this building and what it represents, allowed us to successfully recruit a geriatrician who wants to be a part of the new center. And that’s huge. Montana has really a crippling shortage of geriatricians compared to what the population actually needs as it ages, and the fact that we were able to so readily, kind of recruit somebody who wanted to be a part of this — that alone speaks volumes. Secondly, I think, our foundation is raising money to support this initiative, and it has been very cool to see the excitement our donor base has for it. We do a big annual fundraiser, and in May, we did the fundraiser right around the same time we were breaking ground on the building, and it was an absolute record-setter. People had nothing but amazing things to say about how excited they are for this, how needed they think this type of thing is in the healthcare sector, and they were just eager to be a part of it. Even if they didn’t plan on getting care there themselves, they wanted to be a part of it. So I think that was another real indicator to me that this is something the community is going to be very excited about.

Sarah Steimer 29:32
I think what’s so interesting about this conversation, to me, is that it’s really the thoughtfulness behind the design, the thoughtfulness about its location, what’s being offered, et cetera. It just sounds so reflective of, if we cared about ourselves and about our health as we age, as much as the care that’s being put into this — this is so forward-thinking. And I just, my last question to you both, is, really, what does excite you guys about it the most?

Karl DeCock 30:07
In working with Benefis and working with Kaci in particular, is, this was, this was a project where it was, “If we’re going to do this, we need to do it right.” And we had lots of conversations of, what does right mean and how far do we need to take a lot of this stuff, and honestly, Kaci and and Benefis and the board and everybody involved in this project really pushed us to say, we have to take and and stretch ourselves a little bit on exactly how we’re thinking about this, because it is a bit of a different model of health care. And it’s like anything else, is, is you can have a lot of those earlier discussions on a design and then as as you progress along, things start to fall by the wayside. I would say that this was one of those where, rather than things kind of falling off or things getting discarded for lots of different reasons, whether it’s budget or timeline or whatever it might be. This was one that I felt actually, it picked up momentum the more we got into the design. It was, there are so many things that we can kind of push in here, and the things that we can take to another level to ensure that if we’re going to do this, we’re going to do it at the right level. And so I guess even coming back to, you know, your last question, Sarah, of you know, the things that excite me about this project, and it’s going to sound simple. I’m just excited to see people use it. I want to see people interact with the spaces. I want to see people get the sensation and the feelings and understand the space, hopefully, the way that we we have it designed for, and actually use a space appropriately and and just the amount of hopeful benefit that we’re going to get with the patient population that we’re trying to serve. The outdoor PT spaces is a very unique space. I’m super excited to see that come to fruition just the way that we’ve set up the PT space as a whole. I’m excited to see people interact in there, that living room space, with the natural daylight and the finishes that we’ve selected. I’m excited to see people interact with that. I’m excited to go see it myself and just just be in that space, and then truly, just to actually, hopefully see this building come alive with the community, folks treating it like more, which is the intent, like more than just a another healthcare facility, is really what I’m excited about. So that was kind of two answers there?

Sarah Steimer 31:16
No, it’s good. Kaci, how about you?

Kaci Husted 31:40
I’m excited to be the place people want to come, not the place they have to come. So much of what we do in healthcare is trying to make something people don’t necessarily want to be doing as comfortable as possible. We do, you know, a lot of a lot of projects all the time with the Cushing Terrell team, and most of it is about taking patients who are in the hospital and don’t really want to be there, or who are sick and don’t really want to be and making their experience like as comfortable as it can be, but still not necessarily something they would choose to be doing. Whereas this is truly a place people would choose to come and be excited to come, and that’s so different from so much of what we do that I’m just excited for for that change.

Sarah Steimer 33:08
And it really does sound so different. It’s not like you need to come here because you have to come here. It’s like you should come because it’s going to be a good time. Also you should come because it’s beautiful. And I should note that we will have illustrations up on the website so that folks can take a look at this. You know, there’ll be a link to that in the show notes as well. But this really, I’ve seen what it looks like. It’s beautiful, and I think the community should be excited to use this facility. Kaci and Karl, thank you both so much for spending some time to chat with us about this today. I really do think that this is such a unique project, and hopefully one that catches momentum across the country as well. May you guys be trendsetters. This is very exciting. Well, again, thank you both. I really appreciate your time.

Producer 34:01
Music for Good, Thoughtful Hosts was written, produced, and performed by Sam Clapp. Our moderator is Sarah Steimer. Editing by Travis Estvold. And a special thank you to our content development team, Marni Moore and Trisha Miller. For more information about the podcast, visit thoughtfulhosts.com. Thanks for listening.